ANU Reporter is the online magazine for The Australian National University.

Home - ANU Reporter

Science, space & tech

Politics, law & society

Environment, energy & climate

First Nations

Health & medicine

Asia Pacific & beyond

Arts & culture

Business & economics

Australia&#8217;s first female prime minister gets candid with ANU Reporter about women&#8217;s leadership, mentoring and life beyond politics.

Julia Gillard i a green, orange and gold paisley blazer

When Julia Gillard visits the Australian National University (ANU) campus, she keeps a busy schedule.&nbsp;



In between high-level university meetings and recording episodes of her show, A Podcast of One’s Own, the former prime minister makes time to sit down with ANU Reporter. &nbsp;



It’s perhaps no surprise that Gillard was interested in leadership from a young age. &nbsp;



“I suppose in many ways it all stems from the values and attitudes in my family home, which was a home that very much valued education,” she says.&nbsp;



“Neither of my parents got to finish secondary school, so my parents certainly wanted my sister and I to focus on education and to take all the opportunities which were before us.&nbsp;&nbsp;



“And because we migrated to Australia, because of the Whitlam government, those opportunities included being able to go to university.”&nbsp;



<figure class="wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<iframe title="Spotify Embed: Leigh Sales and Julia Gillard: A Podcast of One&amp;apos;s Own Live" style="border-radius: 12px" width="100%" height="152" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen allow="autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture" loading="lazy" src="https://open.spotify.com/embed/episode/2HCzeeIWgTo0dBPcz00TJN?si=44Y-gcJ2QhuXx3HAx5oLZQ&#038;utm_source=oembed"></iframe>
</div></figure>



Gillard developed a sense of how to operate as a woman in politics from her formative experiences watching and learning from changes occurring in student politics, in the trade union movement and in the Labor party.&nbsp;



In the student movement, she says, “you could experiment, learn about yourself, learn about your capacities, learn to lead, make some errors, come back and do it better”. &nbsp;



Even early in her career, Gillard knew that the fight for gender equality was not an easy one. &nbsp;



“I saw and watched in all three how hard it can be to bring about change on gender. But if you fight for it and you land it, how big a difference it can make,” she says. &nbsp;



Gillard names Joan Kirner, Victoria’s first female premier, as a key mentor and inspiration. Kirner’s affirmative action rule within the Labor party required women to be pre-selected for 35 per cent of winnable seats in all elections by 2002 – it was a win against the ‘glass cliff’ that still <a href="https://reporter.anu.edu.au/all-stories/women-disproportionately-placed-in-unwinnable-seats-ahead-of-federal-election" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">impacts women to this day</a>. &nbsp;



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="1400" height="862" src="https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-1400x862.jpg" alt="A packed crowd await the live recording on A Podcast of One's Own" class="wp-image-41486" srcset="https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-1400x862.jpg 1400w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-600x369.jpg 600w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-768x473.jpg 768w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3-1536x945.jpg 1536w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/3.jpg 1768w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 1400px) 100vw, 1400px" /><figcaption class="wp-element-caption">A live audience for a podcast recording. Photo: Jamie Kidston/ANU</figcaption></figure>



Gillard recalls observing the ways Kirner was treated as a woman in politics during her ride up to the role of premier. &nbsp;



“I learnt about the nature of gendered attacks and the resilience that you need to face them from her, and the importance, too, about giving back when you&#8217;ve got the opportunity,” she says.&nbsp;



During Gillard’s time as prime minister, Kirner stayed in touch, offering advice and support. But when ANU Reporter presses for any tidbits, Gillard is discreet.&nbsp;



“Not all pieces of advice can be spoken about in an august journal like your own,” she jokes. “Too many four-letter words, normally directed to my political opponents.”&nbsp;



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Writing her own story</h2>



It’s practically a rite of passage for Australian leaders to write a book after they have left office. But penning a political memoir is fraught with tensions. It’s tough to share your journey, in your own words, while tightrope-walking through the political calculations of the inevitable reactions from allies and foes. &nbsp;



But it was the chance to tell her own story to found the <a href="https://giwl.anu.edu.au/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Global Institute of Women’s Leadership</a> (GIWL) – the research institute first opened at King’s College London in 2018, with the ANU chapter established two years later. &nbsp;



“The origin story really is that after I left politics and decided to write my memoirs, I wanted to write really thoughtfully on the question of gender,” Gillard says.&nbsp;&nbsp;



“I wanted to write not just my story, but sort of cite what had happened to me in politics against what happens to women globally. And when I looked at the global research base, I did find some fantastic things and learnt a lot, but I also thought, given how long we&#8217;ve been all campaigning for gender equality, the research base was quite thin.”&nbsp;



<figure class="wp-block-image size-large"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="1400" height="862" src="https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1-1400x862.jpg" alt="GIWL team backstage at Llewellyn Hall" class="wp-image-41488" srcset="https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1-1400x862.jpg 1400w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1-600x369.jpg 600w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1-768x473.jpg 768w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1-1536x945.jpg 1536w, https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/1.jpg 1768w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 1400px) 100vw, 1400px" /><figcaption class="wp-element-caption">Photo: Julia Gillard, Leigh Sales, Sarah Holland-Batt and the GIWL team. Photo: Jamie Kidston/ANU</figcaption></figure>



Amid the US-led backlash against gender equality initiatives, Gillard believes it’s now more important than ever to continue to build that research and for evidence-based pathways to change. She cites GIWL polling research that shows many people either think that gender equality has been achieved, or that it has gone too far. &nbsp;



“What that tells us is we haven&#8217;t described the remaining problems as well as we should,” she says.&nbsp;&nbsp;



“And we&#8217;ve perhaps allowed the frame to settle that gender equality is a sort of zero-sum game, more for women must mean less for men, whereas really, a gender equal world will be better for everyone.”&nbsp;



Now, it is not just a question of how to accelerate progress towards gender equality, but how to prevent moving backwards.&nbsp;&nbsp;



“Everybody will have seen the way in which the Trump administration has taken the axe to anything that is bannered diversity, equity and inclusion, and so that is forcing businesses organisations to no longer focus on questions like gender equality,” Gillard says.&nbsp;



“The job is by no means done, and we can&#8217;t let the current political trends, even in a country as powerful as the United States, stop a movement, which is really about change and better lives for all – about more choices, more opportunities for men and for women.”&nbsp;



But Gillard still has hope for the future. Despite the challenges, people are now more familiar with women’s leadership because of the number of female leaders that have held positions of high office around the world. &nbsp;



<blockquote class="wp-block-quote is-layout-flow wp-block-quote-is-layout-flow">
&#8220;I would go to schools and girls would talk to me very openly about how they wanted to be prime minister.&#8221;
</blockquote>



“I think more people now are alive to the way gender stereotyping and perceptions of leaders intersect,” she says. “I think it&#8217;s quite well known now that because we haven&#8217;t historically seen women as leaders… that we can be discomforted by images of women&#8217;s leadership.&nbsp;



“We can quickly conclude that a commanding woman leader is not very nice, she&#8217;s not very nurturing, she&#8217;s not very empathetic, irrespective of what she&#8217;s actually like.”&nbsp;



And like the mentors that inspired and supported her own leadership journey, she too is now witnessing the next crop of young women grow into capable leaders – she’s even interviewed some of them on her podcast. &nbsp;



“I would go to schools when I was prime minister, and girls would talk to me very openly about how they wanted to be prime minister, and they&#8217;d only be six or seven or eight or nine,” Gillard says.&nbsp;



“And I thought that&#8217;s the benefit of them growing up in an era where they can see a woman doing the job. …I was amazed that some messages about gender equality were there and sinking in and making a difference even for the youngest of girls.”&nbsp;



Surely some of these girls have taken heart from Gillard’s famous misogyny speech? It has continuing popularity on social media – appearing in &#8216;get ready with me&#8217; Tik Toks and rave remixes.



<figure class="wp-block-embed alignleft is-type-video is-provider-tiktok wp-block-embed-tiktok"><div class="wp-block-embed__wrapper">
<blockquote class="tiktok-embed" cite="https://www.tiktok.com/@minorfauna/video/6810199714819050758" data-video-id="6810199714819050758" data-embed-from="oembed" style="max-width:605px; min-width:325px;"> <section> <a target="_blank" title="@minorfauna" href="https://www.tiktok.com/@minorfauna?refer=embed">@minorfauna</a> After multiple requests, I bring you my take on the ICONIC ‘Misogyny￼’ speech by Julia Gillard with a <a title="glambot" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/glambot?refer=embed">#glambot</a> twist. <a title="bosschallenge" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/bosschallenge?refer=embed">#bosschallenge</a> <a title="quarantine" target="_blank" href="https://www.tiktok.com/tag/quarantine?refer=embed">#quarantine</a> <a target="_blank" title="♬ original sound - minorfauna" href="https://www.tiktok.com/music/original-sound-6810197035073964805?refer=embed">♬ original sound &#8211; minorfauna</a> </section> </blockquote> <script async src="https://www.tiktok.com/embed.js"></script>
</div></figure>



&#8220;Yes, it certainly has become something of its own. And you know, I&#8217;m kind of delighted to see that,” she says.



“I think it&#8217;s really got a life now that&#8217;s well beyond the political context in which it was given. It&#8217;s even, in some ways, got a life well beyond me. &nbsp;



“It&#8217;s being used now as a bit of an anthem, a kind of fight song, something that I think many women and girls and some men use to get the energy to keep going and fighting for gender equality. I am proud of that.&#8221;&nbsp;



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">The new path forward</h2>




<div class="acf-block--image-block right" data="{&quot;sourceUrl&quot;:&quot;https:\/\/anureporter.wpenginepowered.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2025\/05\/2.jpg&quot;,&quot;aspectRatio&quot;:1.625,&quot;imagePosition&quot;:&quot;right&quot;,&quot;caption&quot;:&quot;Leigh Sales and Julia Gillard on stage for a live podcast recording. Photo: Jamie Kidston\/ANU&quot;,&quot;text&quot;:&quot;&lt;p&gt;&lt;!-- wp:paragraph --&gt;After a busy day on campus, Gillard also finds time to record a live interview for her podcast with acclaimed author and journalist, Leigh Sales.&lt;\/p&gt;\n&lt;p&gt;&lt;!-- wp:paragraph --&gt;In &lt;em&gt;A Room of One\u2019s Own, &lt;\/em&gt;Virginia Woolf said that women need a literal and metaphorical \u2018room of one\u2019s own\u2019 to reach their creative potential. \u00a0&lt;em&gt;A Podcast of One\u2019s Own, &lt;\/em&gt;like its namesake, creates room for women to share their story.&lt;\/p&gt;\n&lt;p&gt;&lt;!-- wp:paragraph --&gt;This time, in front of a sold-out audience at Llewellyn Hall, Gillard is the one asking Sales the questions.&lt;\/p&gt;\n&quot;}">
 <div>
 <img decoding="async" src="https://anureporter.wpenginepowered.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/2.jpg" style="margin-top: 20px; display: block;
 object-fit: cover;" sizes="390px" alt="">
 </div>
 <div class="acf-block__text">
 After a busy day on campus, Gillard also finds time to record a live interview for her podcast with acclaimed author and journalist, Leigh Sales.
In A Room of One’s Own, Virginia Woolf said that women need a literal and metaphorical ‘room of one’s own’ to reach their creative potential.  A Podcast of One’s Own, like its namesake, creates room for women to share their story.
This time, in front of a sold-out audience at Llewellyn Hall, Gillard is the one asking Sales the questions.

 </div>
</div>


She seems to briefly relish in the subversion, announcing that she had arranged her questions to lull Sales into a false sense of security. &nbsp;



“Perhaps you recognise this tactic,” she jokes. &nbsp;



At one point Gillard wonders if both Sales’ recent work and the Chat 10 Looks 3 podcast could be “used as a sort of revenge tool”. &nbsp;



It is hard to not connect it to Gillard’s own life post-politics. &nbsp;



But sometimes revenge on the wrongs of the past means simply paving a clearer path for those who follow after you. And in the founding of GIWL and through A Podcast of One’s Own – that&#8217;s exactly what Gillard has done.

Julia Gillard smiles backstage at Llewellyn Hall

Julia Gillard on making space for other female leaders

History buff

Bird nerd

Word wizard

Armchair astronomer

Pop culture fan

Political junkie

The Australian National University acknowledges, celebrates and pays our respects to the Ngunnawal and Ngambri people of the Canberra region and to all First Nations Australians on whose traditional lands we meet and work, and whose cultures are among the oldest continuing cultures in human history.

Stepping Stone: the alumna-run café creating meals with meaning

Why is Australia in Eurovision?

Australia’s fertility rate is almost irreversible, but recovery begins with hope

How should Australia respond to the starvation of Gaza?

What does Australia’s interest in independents mean for politics?

What are the ripple effects of Trump’s tariffs on Australia?

Is working from home better than being at the office?

Potent new opioid identified by ANU experts 

‘Ocean’ of water found deep underground on Mars

Stormy waves traversing the Earth’s core provide new hints into future planetary exploration

Australia needs to beef up its Russia literacy

Potent new opioid identified by ANU experts

Generosity and kindness, the hallmarks of top ANU scientific leader

Acknowledgement of Country

Julia Gillard on making space for other female leaders

Find your stories

More stories

More stories:

Arts & culture

Breaking barriers: ANU academic recognised for championing under-represented students

Space to Create is an initiative fuelling First Nations music

A cultural policy will protect Australian democracy

Subscribe to ANU Reporter

Stepping Stone: the alumna-run café creating meals with meaning

Why is Australia in Eurovision?

Australia’s fertility rate is almost irreversible, but recovery begins with hope

Julia Gillard on making space for other female leaders

Watch & listen

ANU Expert Explainers: What just happened in the 2025 Australian federal election?